View Full Version : You gotta be kidden' me!
I read this review of some kinda ***** mp3 player:
http://www.hardware-pacers.com/pages.php?pid=282&catType=r
I was thinking ... dum di dum di dum until I saw the final page! 9.1 out of 10?!? :surprise:
Are you messin' with me. 140 Dollars for that? Pay 40 extra and you get the best! If that is so I have to re-do my whole review of the i4. I think 42 out of 10 would be more adequate then. The i4 kicks the living crap out of that shitty stick!
/rant over
EDIT: just look at the accessories that come with the player .. nothing in comparison to that of the i4! Duh
/rant finally over
YIKES, that is a piece of crap. O.k. , I returned my jens of sweden and got a iriver 790 for the oggv support... and it is awesome, for the most part, but I guess my heart isn't in it . Although the sound is the best I have ever heard, I forgot how much I dislike the triangle shape, and the buttons seem cheap to me.
I really doubt if the iaudio 4 can sound this good , this sounds about 100 times better than my cw 200.. I sh** you not. But I would settle for a little less sound (don't get me wrong I know it sounds good) for the iaudio style. I am not really a mainstream person anyways and always thought iaudio built great stuff and had good support.
Anyways I can't remember if iaudio has a return policy of not. If it supported oggv and had less bugs I would jump on it, right now. Point is my time for return is running out and I don't know what to do ... I want to be bowled over by the sound, is this going to happen? Please convice me ;) Scott. :confused: Oh, and as always thanks for the reply.
Hmmmm, I would love to know what chip the iRiver uses you have.
Anyways, do you mean it sounds good with all EQ and SRS WOW (or whatever it is called) at 0 or do you mean it sounds good with these settings enabled?
EDIT: Cowon is trying to get ogg support for the i4, but there is no guarantee.
Hey exity, it sounds awesome flat , and of course even better with eq engaged! I love iaudio but like I said I kid you not. It has great channel seperation (like sharps d class auvi amps) and is clear and loud as a bell all through the volume range.
I might just keep the iriver , and buy a 512 iaudio 4. I have listened to a "bunch" of mp3 players and the new iriver took me by surprise (i own a iriver 390t and a slim x 350. sounds even better (of course) with good cans senn px 100's sure e2's , porta pros ect , it can even drive my audio technica's good!
But, like I said the triangle shape is sometimes is too bulky, and this one (790) seems like the buttons are cheaper. Of course that could just be 'me', they feel a little "soft" thats all.
Scott. Oh, as far as chipset? they used philips before.
And it's not so beautiful loool
Ya it is kinda ugly, exity I think the iriver 700 series use the sigmatel 3520, thought it sounded like my nitrus (great soundstage!) anyhoo, what chipset does iaudio 4 use ? Thanks Scott.
Anyhoo, what chipset does iaudio 4 use ? Thanks Scott.
Sigmatel 3420 ...
EDIT:
I really doubt if the iaudio 4 can sound this good , this sounds about 100 times better than my cw 200.. I sh** you not. But I would settle for a little less sound (don't get me wrong I know it sounds good) for the iaudio style.
:D :D :D Sorry ... I couldn't help but laugh seeing that the 2 sigmatel chips are basically exactly the same except that the 3520 has higher clock speeds and lower power usage.
EDIT2:
The Sigmatel chip (http://www.sigmatel.com/documents/App-Brief1-Flash-MP3-7-0.pdf) is only 18 bits in comparison to the CW300s (and I think CW200s) micronas 3539f (http://www.micronas.com/products/documentation/consumer/mas35x9f/index.php) with 24 bits. Dunnow what that really has to say though exactly :confused:
Software for the eq is different, and also the power output is higher, the creative muvo series uses the same chipset , but sounds totally different. If anything the iaudio should sound better with the bbe effects. One more question: do the buttons seem sturdy (like the cw 200 series)?
Thanks a million!!! Scott.
Hmmm, the buttons are different to those of the CW 200 - I still haven't decided on if they are better than the CW200 or not. From the build quality I would say they are just as good as the CW200 buttons though ...
By exity:Hmmm, the buttons are different to those of the CW 200 - I still haven't decided on if they are better than the CW200 or not. From the build quality I would say they are just as good as the CW200 buttons though ...
Good to hear, because the 200 is a rock! I am returning my iriver (im having trouble playing ogg files) and getting iaudio 4 from the nice people at outward sound...... now the waiting game , shipping to and back again :mad: I know I will have a nicer player though ;)
Well, me being the little spazzy I am: I have already dropped my i4 over 5 times in the short time I have had it.
Somehow I am liking the build quality of the whole device more and more. The buttons are not as far out as on the CW200 though, so basically they aren't in such a great danger either. I haven't had any "false" button presses at all on the i4 even though it has been in my pocket with loads of other stuff.
The controls don't feel quite as flexible though, but the file browsing (windows explorer style) is way better than on the CW200!
http://www.hardware-pacers.com/pages.php?pid=282&catType=r
I was thinking ... dum di dum di dum until I saw the final page! 9.1 out of 10?!? :surprise:
Are you messin' with me. 140 Dollars for that? Pay 40 extra and you get the best! If that is so I have to re-do my whole review of the i4. I think 42 out of 10 would be more adequate then. The i4 kicks the living crap out of that shitty stick!
jetAudio should send the reviewer an iAudio asap! (or the other way around, you should stop checking that site :p). Anyway, it looks that they haven't seen much mp3 players before:
"Here we can see volume controls, hold, and a headphone jack. The advantage to this headphone jack is that it is 3.5mm, which is standard for all headphones." (Page 2, bottom)
:p
"Regarding the sound quality, it is truly remarkable that this player has equalizer settings and in addition the volume controls increase the volume fairly well. " (Page 3, Top)
I don't think any decent mp3/cd player lacks equalizer support of some kind. And I'm still waiting to see one without volume controls :D
Erasure4ever
05-26-2004, 00:12
I know one of the engineers at Sigmatel. I can ask him any questions you guys have about their chips. Just make a list.
I know one of the engineers at Sigmatel. I can ask him any questions you guys have about their chips. Just make a list.
Hmmm, very interesting!
I would love to know loads of stuff about their chips, but there are probably things he is not allowed to tell us.
Just a few things that jump to my mind:
- What is the real s/n ratio of their chips? 'Cause I am confused by iriver and Cowons specs. iriver states that their players using the 3520 have a 90 dB s/n ratio, whereas Cowon claims a 95 s/n ratio on the 3420! Somthing isn't quite right there ...
Another thing would be:
- What other companies are using their chips? I know that iriver, meizu & cowon are deffinitly using them. But there are probably more.
- Which company has implemented their chips best? (That would be an interesting question to ask.)
- Why is the high speed USB on the 3520 only limited to 14 mbps (I think)?
Rio nitrus, uses sigmatel d- major and so does creative muvo.
Sigmatel 3420 ...
Sorry, eXity, but the new iRiver iFP-700/iFP-800 series have
a Philips chipset!
This is proven by pictures taken from inside, look at:
http://www.iriver.co.jp/community/userforum.php?article=962&cUrrent_pAge=
or via babelfish:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iriver.co.j p%2Fcommunity%2Fuserforum.php%3Farticle%3D962%26cU rrent_pAge%3D&lp=ja_en
YIIIIIIIIIIIKES!!!!!!!! :( He is right! Oh well , my play button on my 790 was screwing up anyways(very cheap) and half my ogg files didn't play!
Besides I have a sigmatel powered product (rio nitrus) and it sounds awesome (just not a flash player) . Exity are you sure iaudio is using sigmatel? It seems almost impossible to get a 95 db sn ratio with that chip.
Exity are you sure iaudio is using sigmatel? It seems almost impossible to get a 95 db sn ratio with that chip.
http://eng.iaudio.com/zeroboard/zboard.php?id=B02&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&bmenu=b&category=5&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&bmenu=b&desc=asc&no=33&bmenu=b
Hey, exity, since you seem to be on the board now, can you please give me a quick comparism between the cw 200s sound and iaudio 4 ? Better highs and lows? improved soundstage? louder? thanks, scott.
Hmmm, hard question really. Haven't done a direct comparison between the two players. The i4's JetEffects are way better than the CW200s somewhat basic bass/treble/dynamic bass settings.
Altogether the i4 sounds cleaner too me and offers punchier bass. But to be honest with you I am no audiophile. I just enjoy my music and think it's great of the i4 being so portable.
I would do some direct test right now, but I lent my bro the CW200 and he's watching "The day after tomorrow" right now. Perhaps I can post a direct comparison tomorrow.
Thanks exity,quote by exity:"Altogether the i4 sounds cleaner too me and offers punchier bass. But to be honest with you I am no audiophile. I just enjoy my music and think it's great of the i4 being so portable."
I'm no audiphile either , in comparing the cw 200 to the iriver 790 I found the iriver had better defined treble, I am sure the iaudio 4 is better in that respect. As far as being portable, I hated the triangle shape of iriver especially with the necklace.... no big flat surface so the player so it constantly turns. I know the iaudio is going to be SMALL, I can tell by the picture, it's smaller than cw200 , which as you know is SMALL really small.
I can't wait , maybe I will upgrade my shipping at outward sound :cool: Oh , mx400s are the best buds for the money. I think my next headphone purchase will be senn px100s . I tried koss porta pro and wasn't to keen on them , I think the px100s will be a bit brighter.
Believe me, you will be shocked how small it is. The only thing bigger about the i4 is it's thickness. But that is hardly noticeable ...
I opened the package and was like WTF?!?! They got line in recording, radio, microphone MP3 player, memory and enough space for a battery into THAT??? You gotta be kidden me.
At the beginning I reallly did think it was fragile, but now I am very confident about the i4s build quality!
Yeah they are small..
It's also cool that they included two piece tapes to protect the display.
does anyone know if u can buy more of them ?
Sorry if I went too off-topic..
Cool :cool: lol lol , I guess the only thing I think is dumb is them putting the usb jack under the battery cover. But the battery cover must be pretty sturdy, I guess thats a goood way to protect the usb jack!
Cool :cool: lol lol , I guess the only thing I think is dumb is them putting the usb jack under the battery cover. But the battery cover must be pretty sturdy, I guess thats a goood way to protect the usb jack!
No complaints here to be honest - deffinitly better than on the CW200 where I had to use my teeth everytime to get out that tiny little rubber thingy out of it's hole. :p
Erasure4ever
06-06-2004, 20:29
Ok eXity here's the answers to your inquiry:
- What is the real s/n ratio of their chips? 'Cause I am confused by iriver and Cowons specs. iriver states that their players using the 3520 have a 90 dB s/n ratio, whereas Cowon claims a 95 s/n ratio on the 3420! Somthing isn't quite right there ...Truthfully, this is the area where I'm not so strong.
First off, it wouldn't suprise me that the new generation (35xx) has slightly worse theoretical maximum SNR than the older generation (34xx). From what I remember from meetings, etc, there was ongoing development on the analog side of the design that removed external components (reduced cost) and kept the SNR very high. (95dB vs 90dB is pretty similar and well above any compressed audio content)
Next, there's a lot of ways to fudge SNR, and a lot of different measurement techniques that give different values. We've had a lot of trouble with customers (and potential customers) trying to beat us up on cost based on competitors numbers, so we publish our and test methodology in the marketting glossies.
Not suprisingly, the PCB layout has a big impact on the audio quality and stability of the device, at least for our part. As such, we work very closely with our customers (that will let us) to ensure a layout that gives them as close to the theoretical performance as possible.
Suffice to say, there aren't any (I believe) integrated solutions (ones that don't require an external DAC) that beats our numbers. I can't remember the exact numbers, but ours has beaten any of our competitors in our in house testing. While I'm obviously biased, I've seen the testing methodology and it wasn't an exercise in finding the "perfect benchmark" that let us beat our competitors. We are better than our competitors products in real world results.
Finally, I believe the 'real world' numbers, on a typical player, are about 86dB. This is measured on a 1kHz, 0dB sine wave, I believe.
- What other companies are using their chips? I know that iriver, meizu & cowon are deffinitly using them. But there are probably more.
I know we have about 200 individual companies (mostly out of China/Taiwan/Hong Kong) using our chips. Everytime I see a player advertised, I have to go to the website and find their drivers/firmware update application to see if its ours--I just can't keep track of the many baziliions of players and customers we have.
Ones I know of that are public knowledge (and recognizable) are SonicBlue , Philips, and Creative (excepting large HD players).
And I think you're confused about iRiver. I believe all of their products on the shelf (in the US, at least) use the Philips Symphony chip.
- Which company has implemented their chips best? (That would be an interesting question to ask.) Technically, I don't know the answer. I don't get exposed to that side of the business much, and even then we only test our customers products when they have issues that need to be resolved.
My personal favorite is the iBead, from EXATelecom, Korea. They never had much luck finding a US distributer for some reason, but their size/form factor and firmware useability were just what I was looking for. Also they did a fantastic job with the layout and build quality (in my opinion). These were the products we purchased to give out as freebees as they highlighted the market that we excelled in--small form factor and high quality. The only non grey market place to buy it in the US is http://www.hammacher.com/publish/70548.asp?promo=el_audio, though I've seen it on ebay quite a bit.
SonicBlue has done most of their own software, and they're all smart, top notch engineers. They however, aren't USB mass storage class, so you need drivers to connect to a computer.
- Why is the high speed USB on the 3520 only limited to 14 mbps (I think)?Those numbers aren't completely correct (I'll address our current numbers later on), but the biggest factor on high speed USB download speed is the type of flash.
NAND flash comes in flavors and different flavors have different characteristics. Even the same flavor has different capabilities when it comes from different manufacturers. Some have internal caching mechanisms, some have larger erase blocks, some require more error correction than others, etc.
Generally, we've grouped NAND flash into 3 (and now more) groups:
Type I -- older (<128 MB flash chips). Erase block size of 16KB, page size of 512 bytes.
Type II -- newer (all 128MB chips or bigger). Erase block size of 128KB, page size of 2KB, most have internal caches.
Type III -- newer, low cost (128MB or bigger). Smaller erase block size, longer erase times per block. (This stuff is beastly slow)
Assuming one erase per block, and one write per page, the theoretical maximums on Type I NANDs is about 12 MB/s. Type IIs is slightly higher (approaching 18MB/s, I think), Type IIIs are horrifically slow (but apparently 20% cheaper per bit).
Of course, windows USB mass storage host driver doesn't always help us out, so I think our current max speeds are about 7MB/s read, and 5MB/s write for our best base. Even better, each of the operating systems have slightly different implementations of USBMSC, so the numbers change quite a bit.
Writing to an MMC/SD card is mostly dominated by the SPI bus. I think its theoretical max is 2MB/s or something like that.
Wow ... very very very interesting! Thanks a lot Erasure4ever!!! :) :) :)
Thanks Erasure4ever, it's so nice to see some inside tech talk about products,(makes me feel all warm and fuzzy). I knew that 4320 was a good chip set the minute I listened to my rio nitrus..... Can't wait for iaudio 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Erasure4ever
06-07-2004, 19:22
No problem, glad you guys enjoyed it.:)
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